노영일 후배님,
고맙습니다. 덕분에 좋은 관광하였고
간디의 마지막 날의 주위와 그의 말씀들을 읽으며
생생히 상상이 가니 더욱 실감이 갑니다.

On January 29, 1948, Gandhi expected he would be killed.
He said to a friend, "If someone were to end my life by putting a bullet through me,
and I met his bullet without a groan and breathed my last taking God's name,
then alone would I have made good my claim."
On January 30, 1948, at 5:10 p.m., as he walked through the garden
to his evening prayer service, Gandhi was shot and killed.
He fell to the ground calling out God's name.

Although Gandhi was a hinduist, he did not limit himself to one religion.
He was a true believer in Jesus' teaching.
He followed to the letter the teachings of Jesus' sermon on the mount and
Hinduism's the Bhagavad Gita, and lived like St. Francis of Assissi and Mother Teresa
always with the poorest of the poor.

Anyone who reads about him will very soon find out that
he was a truer Christian than any living or dead Christians in true sense
so that there is the direct connection between Jesus' death and his
you saw in the painting.

Another contrary thinking or opinion....
Please note that it's just a contrary thinking of another person (that's me in this occasion)
and has nothing to do with the respect or disrespect on the original article or it's author.
This is just a different idea or a looking from a different direction at the same subject !!

간디는 인도에서는 영웅으로 추대 받고, 세계에서도 그렇게 추대받지요.
간디의 업적의 큰 하나는 British rule에 반항 (무폭력) 해서 인도를 해방 시킨것이지요.
최근에 India Trip에서 돌아온 동문들의 글과 평소에 들었던 얘기를 종합해보면
지금 현재의 인도인들의 생활을 엿볼수있읍니다.
실망적인것은 인도해방 수십년이 지난 오늘날, 또 급변한 전 세계적 현대화의 물결을 불구하고
인도 사회는 아직도 미개하고 고리타분한 전통적 생활방식이 계속되고 있다는것입니다.
가장 큰 예가 인도인들의 Caste system 입니다.
Caste system 밑에서 수백만, 수천만의 인간들이 현대 인간의 대접을 못받고 지금도 그렇게 살고있지요.
이건 Humanity의 존중성에 대한 커다란 용서할수없는 모독입니다.

이조시대에도 한국에는 양반, 쌍놈 계급이 공공연하게 있었지만 다행히도 (?) 일본놈들이 들어와
성공적으로 제거 시켰다는 사실을 기억하시기 바랍니다.
만일 그들이 없었다면 아직도 너는 쌍놈, 나는 양반하고 손구락질하고 살지도 모릅니다.

다시 인도로 돌아가면, 영국인의 통치가 계속되었다면, 분명히 영국인들이 인도사회의 Caste sysytem을
폐지 시켰을것이라 봅니다. 간디 덕택에 영국이 일찍 물러난 이유로 Caste system은 아직도 건재한채
남아있고, 이것이 인도의 발전에 막대한 지장을 초래하고 있읍니다 (다 아시다 싶히).

그렇다면 간디의 업적이 인도에 도움을 준것일가,
아니면 인도의 미개성을 보존, 유지해서 현재 인도의 희망없는 사회체재를 계속 시키지 안었나 라는 의문이 생깁니다.

본인은 차라리 간디가 없었다면, 인도는 훨씬 진보된 사회를 지금 가지고 있을것이라고 생각되지요.
인도인들과 세계인들의 "간디 숭배"는 적반하장(賊反荷杖)을 찬양하는, 터무니없는 어리석음이 아닌가 합니다.
Indians may never feel this way though.

"간디....인도를 망쳐논 사람...."
인도에서 한 인도인 지식인이 내뱉는 소리를 듣고 놀랐다.

간디는 위대한 사상가요,  비폭력, 비협조라는 Passive Aggressive 한 전략으로 인도의 독립을 쟁취한 독립운동가이다.
가히 國父的 존재이며 모든 인도인의 존경의 대상이다.

그러나 독립을 쟁취한 후가 문제이다.
여지껏 이어지는 간디-네루 일가의 족벌정치는 현대 인도의 빈곤을 자초했다는 이야기다.

그는 소련과 가까이 하고 서방국가들과는 거리를 두었으며 문호를 닫았다.

극단적인 민주주의는 자유를 넘어서 방종에 가까왔으며 법치국가로서의 기강마져 흐려놓아,
관리들의 부정부패, 폭력배들까지 개입된 족벌정치등은 인도의 국가적 발전에 절대적인 장애요소였다.
극단적인 개인주의가 싹트고, 국가나 민족보다는 자기자신의 이익에 눈이 어두웠다.

거기에다 운명론적인 힌두의 세계관은 생산성을 떨어트리고 모든것을 팔자로 돌리며
자신의 인생을 계발시키려는 노력이 없이 게을러지고 이는 많은 빈곤층을 낳게 했다.

아직까지도 악령처럼 인도 사회를 지배하는 계급제도 (Caste system) 는 많은 인재들을 사장하고있고,
똑똑한 인재들이 해외로 탈출하는 원인이 되기도 하다.

타종교에 너그러운 힌두교는 다산주의 회교도들의 도전을 받아 인구분포나 정치세력에서 밀려날 위기에 처할지도 모른다.

어느 한 강력한 지도자가 나와 이런문제를 해결할수 있다면 13억 인구를 가진 세계 제2위의 대국으로서의 영화를 누릴지도 모른다.

다만 최근 수년간 싱총리의 노력으로 상당한 경제부흥을 이루고있다.

간디는 위대한 사상가요 혁명가지 훌륭한 정치가는 아니었다.

여행을 하며 잠시 이런 생각을 해봤다.

Gandhi always took residence in the poorest section of the city
where the "the untouchables" lived.
He was painfully feeling the pains of these people at the lowest level of the caste.
He went on "fast till death" with the demand that his people accept the untouchables
as equal and show the proof and evidence.
Finally the people in the upper caste brought the untouchables into their homes
convincing him every which way that they did as he demanded so that Gandhi stopped his fast.

He fought all his life to break the system but obviously didn't succeed on permanent basis.

It is my view that none of us has the capacity to know those things you gentlemen described above.
Shall I use the old cliche, "God works mysteriously."
The contribution of Gandhi's life to mankind is immeasurable, I must say.

To counter WM's point, we know that India has had the democracy for a long time
and has had enough shares of all the ills, corruptions, etc, of capitalistic democracy,
just as Korea has been going thru.
But we know that finally their economy is growing faster than any democratic countries.
China is the only one growing faster, which is not democratic.
I saw one hour special presentation on ?CNN a couple of months ago showing how well
Indian people are doing now. Americans have lost a whole bunch of well paying jobs to them.
It appears their better days have come and yet to come.
The building block, the individual freedom and free market capitalism, finally is transforming
the country.

As for the caste system, it is bad. However, England which never experienced a revolution like France
still suffers from the remants of the class consciousness that still exists to this day after a thousand years or more.
Some day, who knows, the descendants of the Indian people realized they had had a wise man, called Gandhi,
who taught what Buddha and Jesus taught by a good example for his people.
Perhaps their stoned hearts will melt and abolish the caste system and embrace the untouchables as
brothers and sisters.

Gandhi always said privately that what he accomplished was the result of his experiments with Truth, and
considered it to be small part of his spiritual life and no big deal.
He is considered to be the first human being who was able to demonstrate that the social issues can be
dealt with by following the principle, nonviolence, love, love your enemy, etc, as taught by Jesus.
Martin Luter King, Jr., describes how he was convinced by Gandhi in dealing with African American's
problem here in America. Before he went to see Gandhi, he had nothing but doubts that Gandhi's
nonviolence way will answer what he was looking for. He came away with a total conviction that
it should work dealing with the racisim in America.

It is sad to note that both died the way they did.
Yet both predicted how they may die.
Just like Jesus in the bible said, "a grain of wheat has to die" to bring on life, I may say.
My apology for the lengthy comment, which means that I do not know anything.

I might add that I just listened to Jim Yong Kim's speech put on by Dr. Minn on this page.
I felt that he was following the foot steps of someone like Gandhi.
I felt so proud to be a Korean by listening to him.
His heart seems just as pure and courageous as Gandhi's.

However, Doc, "the individual freedom and free market capitalism" apply only to the upper class in the caste system.
For those in the lower class, it means absolutely nothing even today.
It is just a "그림의 떡" for them !!
Our alumni travelers who, personally, were there recently have said so !!

This lower class are not any better off than ancient times. They are not much of human beings.
The progress is only good for the upper class of the society.
We should look "all layers and classes" in the Indian society to say that it is improving.

We may have been brain-washed to resprect Gandhi.
Please wake up, drop the blind herd mentality, and look around again.
The whole thing about Gandhi's heroics may be nothing but a big BS.

Perhaps Indian people need to have more Gandhis and more Jim Yong Kims right now
in order for them to wake up.

Perhaps Gandhi and his contemporary leaders did what they could under the circumstances.
The current Indian people who have all the resources they didn't have before are to be blamed
for the state their poor people in, I believe.

They certainly have no excuse from the standpoint of moral ground, etc.
In contrast to your opinion, I highly doubt that the British people could somehow
have abolished the caste system if Gandhi had not been a factor.
The British has not been able to abolish their own class consciousness in a thousand years,
not to mention India's caste system which is much older.

I truly do not know as much as you may know and certainly do not feel qualified
to state any judgemental remarks except saying that I disagree with the opinion somehow dumping
the blame on Gandhi retrospectively.

I sharply disagree with your remarks that we may have been brain-washed, etc.
It sounds to me bordering "ridiculous."

Thanks, Doc. I have nothing against you personally.
I know you have nothing against me either. This is just an open discussion. That's why we have this website.

1. We have been effectively brain-washed when we read about Gandhi in the textbooks of our primary school.
We took it as the truth of the world then.
As it turned out a lot of things in those textbooks are not the truth.
We blindly believed everything they said and some of us are still believing them.
In those days, we used to be a frog at the bottom of a well.
A brain-washed person generally does not realize if he had been brain-washed.
Only contrary thinking can break the barrier, so that he can realize it.

2. British people have chosen to maintain the monarchy which has become more or less symbolic thing.
Yes, it was people's choice. If they wanted the other way, they could have easily gotten rid of it.
It can not be compared to Indian system.

Just like Japanese effectively got rid of our caste system (Korean and Confiscian version),
British could have done it in India if they were given enough time and power.

3. Gandhi may be a great person and a hero.
But what he had promised and left behind didn't perform as well as it was meant to do.
What really counts is the long-term effect, not the momentary glory or reputation.

4. One's feeling that he isn't qualified to say something he wants to say, is a wrong attitude.
Nobody in the world is really qualified to say anything, I mean any subjects or any trivial things.
I am not even qualified to say that "1+1=2" if you or I really get into the depth of science and math.
That's why we have a God or Gods on which we can fall on.

5. Since you mentioned him, I happened to have a dim view on Jim Yong Kim's future.
The reason I gave him a "thundering applause" is because of the tidal effect.
When the sea rises, all the boats in it rise also.
When Jim Yong Kim rises, we, Koreans, rise as well.
Jim Yong Kim's personal rise may be a short-term effect,
but Koreans rise might have a good chance to be a long-term effect in the world society.

6. I realize that I sound "ridiculous" (yes, it may be true), but I don't mind that at all.
What needs to be spoken should be spoken. In our human history, there had been a lot of ridiculous stories
spoken (such as Columbus' claim that the earth was round, and etc.) by persons who were regarded as idiots.
Please let me be an idiot !!

I agree wholeheartedly that both of us have nothing personal against each other.
Perhaps hopefully this discussion has helped to make clearer our world views and where we are coming from.

Imagine if Jesus Chrisis WAS  the President of USA
At 7:55 a.m. Hawaii time (12:55 p.m. EST) on December 7, 1941.