여기서 Youtube을 반드시 들어보세요. 

그리고 그 발음과 정관호의 유창한 한글 발음을 비교해 보세요. 

우리 Korean Americans에게는 한국말이 제일이지요.

한글없이 살 수 있습니까?

좀 더 두가지 예를 인명에서 찾아봅니다:

1.項羽; Xiang Yu: 항우 즉 패왕별희에 나오는 항우를 말하는데 어찌 발음할지 궁금합니다. 
혹시 “지양유” 아니면 “쟝유”라고 부를지 모르겠군요.  우리말대로 하자면 “항우”라고 하지요. 

2.Li Na: 李娜: “이나” 는 중국의 유명한 여자 테니스 선수였지요. 내가 그녀의 중국이름을 
알 게 된 것은 어느 시합에서 그녀의 Tennis shoes를 확대하여 보여주는데, 그 Shoes위에 
“李娜”로 써 있는 것을 보았어요. 그래서 알게 되었지요.  이씨 즉 李氏는 우리나라에 둘째로 
많은 성이고 본인의 어머니 또한 경주 이씨이기에 “우리어머니와 같은 이씨다.”하고 혼자 
중얼거렸지요. 영문대로 발음하자면  “ㄹ리나”라고 해야 할지요. 왜냐하면 첫 글자가 L인경우 
우리말도 표현할 한글이 없지요. 전통적인  우리말대로 하자면 “이나"로 부르면 되겠지요.

Belatedly join to others to thank to KwanHo’s extraordinary role to introduce old Chinese history related saga/poems to us, no one could do better than he!!!! I don’t know who else would have such extensive knowledge in Chinese poems as KwanHo has but he is the only one as I know of throughout our generation and am so proud of him as one of my classmates, who still remains active to showing razor sharp brain function which is extraordinary in our age- 80+?- by all means!

Indeed, I am a bit embarrassed to tell you that we didn’t know much about his such long background on 한문 through his mother while in same class but somehow, some body among the classmates started to call him as ‘공자 ‘ who might have noticed his unique knowledge in 한문 as an obvious reason I might have overlooked, or because he had an appearance a bit closer look to Chinese in my memory.

Anyhow, KwanHo was one of few, who always remain quiet, keeping oneself out of trouble, while we all young kids went crazy to maximize the fun we could have only while at Premed before being thrown into the hell, Med school. Perhaps he was one year(?) older than us so that he didn’t actively participate to main stream/body and always remained in the classroom to study. But he actually didn’t belong to 노장 group either as I know of.

So, I don’t know why but somehow, his unique nickname drew my attention(?) – I was the monitor of the class then- and used KwanHo as a pawn to pull the leg of one old professor who gave 한문class, to yell to the professor, holding/sabotaging him to begin the class, to watch out and honor one Chinese guy, that is KwanHo, sitting as a student with us, who knows more than the professor so that he would be better NOT to give a wrong teaching. The professor really believed me quite a while and everyone in the class burst into laughter.

Indeed, one of my extra(?) roles as the class monitor was teasing the teachers/professors to make fun whenever feasible. Otherwise, most of the classes were so dull as you all might recall that we really needed crazy stuffs to survive through such boring two years of premed school (I took advantage to spend most of time to sneaking out to catch one girl at 문리대 -my wife- to start to my personal affair, though) but I really don’t know who gave his nickname as KwanHo ‘공자‘ through premed school. Now, I can tell KwanHo deserved to have such noble(?) nickname as a life-long commitment to Chinese poem as the scholar.

Warm regards,

BB Lee of ‘63

P.S. Forgot to give my opinion on Korean version of Chinese character pronunciation. By all means we need our own version of pronunciation as we have been using a thousand year to become a part of our own culture to reinforce 한글, as KwanHo claims.  So, the pronunciation in Chinese way is another matter in my opinion. Besides, I heard from Taiwanese colleagues that the way we pronouce is ‘ossified’ version of the pronunciation in Ming Dynasty era so that many linguists in Taiwan come to Korea to study Korean way of pronunciation. Indeed, I go to China virtually every year to give lectures/workshops - for this year I go to Beijing on Oct 20, next Sunday- and as usual, communicate (?) with Chinese colleagues who can’t speak English by writing in Chinese characters we learned from the school, although I do have some difficulty with my limited knowledge in newly abbreviated Chinese characters by the communists (In Taiwan, no problem to read and write as we were taught).

윗 webpage 끝부분의 "중국발음으로 한시 감상하기"에서...

먼저 한글토를 보자.

靜夜思 李白  床前明月光，疑是地上霜 舉頭望明月, 低頭思故鄉。。
정야사 이백 상전명월광, 의시지상상.  거두망명월, 저두사고향.

여기에서 한자를 빼면, 나머지는 아무의미없는 한줄의 발음 뿐이다.
정야사 이백, 상전명월광, 의시지상상. 거두망명월, 저두사고향.

다음에 중국어 토를 보면

靜夜思 李白    床前明月光，       疑是地上霜     舉頭望明月,         低頭思故鄉
징예사 리바이, 추앙지안밍유에광, 이쉬디샹슈앙, 주토우왕 밍규에, 디토우시국시앙

여기에서 한자를 빼면, 훌륭한 중국어의 몇마디 회화가 된다.
징예사 리바이, 추앙지안밍유에광, 이쉬디샹슈앙, 주토우왕 밍규에, 디토우시국시앙

If one is smart and adventurous, he has learned a few Chinese phrases already. For example,
징예=quiet night (징=quiet, 예=night), 사=think 
바이=white, 추앙=table 지안=before(or in front) 밍=bright 유에=moon 광=light up,

Here, as you see, by reading Chinese pronunciation, one has learned 9 Chinese words
that you can use in your actual conversation !! 
If you repeat this only 10 times, you've learned and memorized 9 Chinese words for nothing.
We can use these in the street in Beijing !!

By having read in Korean of "정야사 이백, 상전명월광", even repeated for thousand or million times, 
you've learned nothing !! What a waste of time !!

Korean is in a phonetic system, the sounds don't mean anything.

Where in the world can you use this sound? Nowhere, even in Korea !!

See... Koreans wasted the entire 500 years of the Lee Dynasty in reading meaningless Korean pronunciation.

And they had learned nothing.

If they used Chinese pronunciation, they should have become an excellent Chinese speaker.

In the same token, if we have read 10-20 Chinese poems given by Dr. Chung in this website

in Korean pronunciation, we have learned no Chinese.

The idiots remained idiots. Even smart ones remained as idiots. Nothing was learned.

However, if we used Chinese pronunciation in Dr. Chung's poems,

some of us who are smart should have learned a lot of Chinese vocabulary

that we can use in the streets of Beijing "right now !!

For idiots, it won't make any difference either way. They will never learn anyway.
What a waste of time for our ancestors? (because we have used Korean pronunciation for a thousand years or more.)

And, believe it or not, we are still doing the same as they had done under the name of tradition.

Some of us may not have understood (or got a grip) on what I have said here.

Note: you may write any way you like in the SNUMA website.

There are no rules on this website on how to write Chinese and Korean poems or documents.

I am insisting on nothing !! You are free to do your way.

I just thought that if we used Chinese pronunciation, we could have learned a lot of Chinese

vocabulary in the last 2-3 years since Dr. Chung started to write Chinese poems.

Since he used Korean pronunciation, we did not learn how to speak Chinese.

I believe we should use whatever is advantageous to us at our (present) time

rather than staying at the "fucking old useless" tradition.

We are not obliged to use (or maintain) ancient Chinese pronunciation

to benefit Chinese scholars of their research in their ancient language.

To hell with them and their ancient pronunciation !! We shouldn't waste our time on them.

Alas! There must be a deep and wide ideological gulf between your and my thoughts

larger than the Gulf of Mexico.

Let me go to Hangul world to facilitate our exchanges though there seems to be no solution in sight.

본인의 한시 소개의 의도는 한시에 나오는 현 중국어를 소개함으로써 중국어 회화에 도움이 돨 것을

기대한 적이 없습니다. 왜냐하면 적어도 대다수 여러분처럼 Spoken Chinese에는 우리 모두 문맹이기

때문이지요.

본인의 한시 소개의 목적은 본인이 어머니로부터 배웠고, 즐겼던 한시를 여러분에게 소개하며 함께 공유하고 즐기자는 오로지 소박한 의도였지요.

여기에 나오는 한문으로부터 중국발음과 그 해석을 함께 배워 Shanghai streets에서 중국인과 쉽고 실제적인 대화까지 하도록 독자를 인도한다는 생각은 꿈에도 하지 못했지요.

그 이유는 너무나 간단합니다. 본인이 중국어(Spoken Chinese)를 한마디도 구사하지 못하기 때문이에요. 본인이 즐긴다기보다 도취하는 이 한시는 어머니로부터 배웠고, 전수받았던 한시를 여러분께 알려서 그런 좋은 그리고 위대한 한시를 감상까지 안내하려는 의도였지요. 어떻게 즐기는가? 다시 여기 Presentation을 하자면:

상전에 ~간월광하니~~의시~지상상을~~

거두~망명월이요~~저두~사고향이라~~

아!, 여기에 이르면 평상앞에 반쯤 누워서 술 한잔을 들고 있는 이태백이 달빛을 보고 땅을 내려다보니

그 표면이 서리로 덮인 듯합니다. 다시 밝은 달을 쳐다보고 머리를 내리니, 고향이 떠오르지요.

나 역시 Cabernet Sauvignon 한잔 들고 창밖에 호수위에 뜬 달을 바라보며 흥얼거릴 때 이태백의 정경을 생각하였고, 그걸 여러분께 옮기려는 의도일 쀤입니다.

비현실적이라구요? 그래요. 이걸 백날을 읊어봐야 돈 한푼 벌 수도 없어요. 그러나 나름대로 좋은 감정을 갖게 해준 이태백에게 많은 고마움을 갖게 될 뿐입니다.

그러니 Beijing이나 Shanghai 길거리 혹은 호텔 Lobby에서 중국인에게 대화하는 건 다른 방법의 교습을 받아야겠지요. 그런 경우에 관해서는 다음 기회에 논하기를 기대합니다.

Doc, my comment is not anything against your way of Chinese poem appreciation.

It's just my personal idea of handling Chinese poems and using Korean or Chinese pronunciation.

As I said above, please keep doing your own way.

My comment is just my personal opinion.

You seem to be thinking that it was my attack. It is not.

I knew that "Some of us may not have understood (or got a grip) on what I have said here."

as I had said above. You don't have to understand or even follow my idea.

Steve is right! By adding Korean version of pronunciation along the Chinese poems wouldn’t help us to learn Chinese conversation, while adding current Chinese pronunciation instead of Korean version of pronunciation might give us a help/chance to learn how Chinese pronounce/ read so that we could use them to learn Chinese conversation faster if you would.

However, I wonder how much such a few words- proper pronunciation- we learn through the poems, we seldom listen, would give us an advantage to learn Chinese conversation unless we have extensive repertoire like KwanHo to use many vocabularies. So, I would rather like to enjoy old Korean version of pronunciation on Chinese characters together with Korean translation as a part of Chinese poems as KwanHo introduces although such Korean version of Chinese character pronunciation definitely gave quite a confusion and difficulty to learn Chinese stuffs in my own experiences.   

Indeed, my limited knowledge in Chinese characters learned through the school - around 3,000 or more? -, gave me substantial confusion when I started to get involved to Chinese society of vascular surgery since late ’80. Another words, Korean version of pronunciation didn’t match with actual name of city/province I visit, for example, they/Chinese call and I read.  When I was invited to Zhejiang University first time, I didn’t know it was 절강성/JULGANG ((浙江) province by our own Korean version pronunciation, till later.  Another example is I mixed up Henan (河南) province (we pronounce as 하남 but proper pronunciation would be 흐난) with Hunan (湖南/ 호남) when I went to ‎Zhengzhou to deliver the lecture-  Zhengzhou (郑州市/정주) is capital city of Henan (河南) -, during the conversation about the regional food to make me so embarrassed. Finally I got the map written in Chinese characters together with Chinese pronunciation to identify each city and province we learned/remember with Korean version pronunciation to match easing my confusion.

So, the learning of correct Chinese pronunciation is one entirely new ball game in my opinion and I have a mixed feeling on my previously learned Korean version pronunciation though I don’t know whether it will be helpful to register in my brain to be linked with new knowledge/ pronunciation.

All the best,

BB Lee of ’63 Class

Doc, yes sir. You got an idea... your "entirely new game !!!" is the answer.

Why do we play the boring old game again and again for a thousand years?

Why do we have to climb the same mountain every weekend?

Why do we have to sing the same song every time?

Let's not get stuck there like a repeating phonographic player that got stuck in one groove.

How about getting into some fresh new game, a new mountain, or a fresh new song for a change?

본인이 현재 쓰고 있는 한문에 한글음을 달은 것은 예부터 현재까지 한문 가르침을 그대로 답습하고 준수한 형식일 뿐입니다. 그리고 이러한 한글발음을 중국식발음으로 고친 한문서적을 아직 본 적이 없지요. 그런 생각이나 논의는 가능하지만, 한국한문학회에서도 하지 않는 방식을 본인이 누구의 제안으로 하지는 않습니다.

거듭 언급하거니와 본인의 한시와 한문 게재의 목적은 중국어 발음을 알리려는 의도가 아님을 명백히 선언하며, 만일 그런 식으로 글이나 일반대화에 현재 중국발음을 쓰고 싶다면 그건 개인이 스스로 결정할 문제임을 강조합니다.

한마디 추가할 것은 우리민족의 말 즉 Spoken Korean은 다른 나라의 말과 전혀 달랐고, 물론 중국어와도 달랐지만, 한글 즉 Written Korean이 탄생하기 전부터도 우리말은 중국말로 흡수되지 않았다는 우리만이 갖는 자산입니다.

중국발음이 우리가 쓰는 한글에 들어와서 한글을 훼손시키는 일이 있어서는 안될 상항임도 명시합니다.

이는 현재 우리 말에 영어나 기타 서방각국의 언어를 무분별하게 함께 쓰는 퇴폐상황을 더욱 악화시키지 맙시다.

그렇다고 본인은 한글우월론자는 아니고 오로지 귀중한 한글을 잘 지키자는 뜻일 뿐이지요. 예컨대 BB처럼 중국강연때 배워온 "하남"을 "흐난"이라고 쓴다고 하여 비웃지는 않겠습니다.

정관호 자칭 한글보존자 씀 

Dear BB: I didn't realize your reading of quite a few writings of mine until this morning. 

Needless to say, I am so happy that you enjoyed the great works including 古離別(고이별),

弔古戰場文(조고전장문), 滕王閣序 王勃(등왕각서 왕발): 등왕각 서문. 

I learned these works from my mother dear on and off. 

But I still remember her reciting of these works with ringing to my ears even nowadays.

My mother was born in a prosperous family and had an enviable life of a girl until married when 16 years old.

Around her middle age even before I was born, our family assets were totally depleted, 

and she lived literally in poverty while raising me. Being a Buddhist, she has been at peace despite her difficult life.

That's how I remember my mother long after her decease. 

Thank you very, very much for your appreciation of these great Chinese literary works. 

P.S. I almost forgot:

You can find 소동파 적벽부 at No 6563 dated Sept 16, 2019, and 제갈량 출사표 at No 6555 dated Sept 10, 2019. 

I might also include 琵琶行(비파행) at No 6455 dated July 10, 2019 since you mentioned it sometime ago.

Thanks again, KwanHo, to guide me to제갈량 출사표,  소동파 적벽부, and 琵琶行(비파행) as well, you previously introduced through this website. I went through these tremendous works you did and enjoyed these many Chinese literatures with great appreciation. I also tried to download them to my tablet to read them again on way to Beijing this Sunday- it still takes full 15 hours even by straight non-stop flight from here, Washington DC- but I couldn’t figure it out. Hope I could retrieve them to read through such boring long flight-.

Also, it is also fascinating story about your mother- indeed we never ask such personal affairs but you kindly shared with us to understand better! - who reminds me of 맹모삼천. Indeed, I was so impressed that your mother received such extraordinary quality/level of 한문education, way above of average양반 family provided to their daughters in those days. So far, as I know of, in KyungSangDo, the education to the daughters was rather quite limited to the basic one.

Although my mother from a leading 양반 family at 영양/주실 - one of nephews of 조 광조,who was executed as falsified 역모 during 중종 era, escaped to settled at 영양, the remotest part of KyugSangDo with his mother!- also allowed to receive exceptionally high education by her father to accumulate extensive knowledge in 한문 and Chinese poems/histories, I am sure hers are not as much as your mother’s  though it was more than enough for me to substitute the dictionary/reference, now I miss dearly.

Indeed, ChoSun Ilbo wrote about her saga as one of two daughters who successfully escaped(?) from well-known KyungSangDo 양반 family to come up to Seoul to have received new education to become 신여성 in their article under the title of 조선명가. She is rather known as 시조시인  조애영 (趙愛泳, 1911~2002) to Koreans - see the attachment- and together with her nephew, 조지훈, she has made substantial contributions to salvage many hidden Korean poems through 내방가사(內房歌辭) besides her poem 시조집 '슬픈 동경'.

So, I feel very lucky to have you around to continue to provide my needs and I am sure you will do so.

With warm regards,

BB

I am the last and only son of my aging parents, who already had five daughters, with 2 sisters already having their children! I grew up under their knees( 슬하에서 자랐다네.) rather lonely withut having brothers.

Father was born in 1893, mother in 1899. My grandfather had passed 과거 and was assigned as a country magistrate at 예안군 (경북) as so-called 원님,. amd sent his only son, my father, at the age around 10, to America accompnaied by one of his brothers and another well-known 독립투사, 김규식박사, for American education.

I have written mother's life here at No 5617, 5618, 5619, and 5620 on the date of  Nov 07, 2017. (I invite you to read them)

She was born at 경주이씨 가문, but her family had lived at 한양 즉 서울 for several hundred years as 가난한 양반(남산골샌님???). So she was definitely a Seoul native with the most authentic Hanyang accent. 

Her father was a high-ranking officer (참판) and a 이조말 충신, served 대원군 and 고종황제.  Believe or not, my maternal grandfather (외할아버지) had acquired French citizneship through French embassy without stepping the French soils. He had a very good French education from French priests and I can confidently tell you that he was the only French speaking Korean as fluently as any French people in those days. Under this circumstance she wanted to have modern educaion in Tokyo, but it was impossible for her to be sent to any women's school in Japan. 

Instead 외조부 hired the best 한학자 정다산 후예, and offered the traditional 한문학교육 to her since she was the most beloved daughter of all his children due to her advanced talent. I personally felt that she should've taken the modern education and must have been a leader for young Korean women rather than having been a simple house wife and mother.That's how she was exceptionally knowledgeable in all kinds of Chinese classics. 

BB, I might hold the discussions of 내방가사 by your mother to some other time since I read it in the facebook.

I will stop at this point.

Thank you, 

Have a great day.

Kwan Ho

What a fascinating story, KwanHo!

Indeed, the story involved to ‘French education from French priests’ reminds me of the story about my father’s wet nurse/유모.

My father’s younger brother /이호 was born only a year later so that my grandmother couldn’t raise two boys with her limited milk supply but luckily they found one young women/candidate for a wet nurse who concealed her identity but looked like the person of decent 양반family, apparently escaping from the persecution of Catholics in Seoul area and recently lost a young baby during the escape.

She was able to provide the milk to serve as wet nurse to raise my father and remained at 영천 till she was able to go back to Seoul. My father recalled her praying with rosary in the middle of the night while no one watches her. So, my father started to build the curiosity to the religion/Catholic in his young age and later had an opportunity to spend quite an amount of time – one summer? - with Catholic priests at their monastery(?) near to Kyoto, Japan and kept the relationship with them through French Embassy till through the WWII, getting a sulfur drug, for example, to save my life when I had a terrible diarrhea right after I drank 식 혜/감주after the 돌잔치.

Indeed, his perception to Catholic was exceptional and allowed my eldest sister to pledge to become a nun of Carmelite Order. Archbishop Noh subsequently arranged my eldest sister to go to France to stay at Carmelite convent in Paris to study at Sorbonne but she got an acute abdomen/peritonitis caused by bovine tuberculosis from unpasteurized milk produced by the convent and required the TB therapy for years, and failed to become a Carmelite nun by their rule – that particular Order does not accept the person who was sick before- but dedicated all her life to support Carmelite Order till she passed away.

BB Lee